EC101 revisited - Mixing Economics with Altruism

by Robin Upton Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 04:09:33 AM EST

Let me take you back to EC101, a 1st year university course on micro-economics. After a brief oral introduction, the lecturer got down to business with a list of traditional assumptions. He asked rhetorically "OK, are we happy with that?" as he wrote each one up on the board, casting a token glance back to us, the audience. `Everyone is only interested in their own welfare', he wrote and then did a double take after seeing a hand waving at him from the back of the room. Embarrassed and taken aback, he asked me what the problem was.

"But I'm not entirely self-interested," I barked back, "I have friends that I care about. Why should we assume something we know to be wrong?"

His reply was as straightforward as it was uninspiring "Well, we have to assume that, otherwise we can't do economics". EC101 was a small but compulsory part of my degree, so since he was going to mark my exam, my token act of resistance (and my interest in conventional economics) finished there. By the time of my second degree I had studied quite a lot of game theory, and forgotten the obvious (obvious, that is, to the unschooled) point that people do not behave as self-maximisers, which came as a shock to me years later when I read about the ultimatum game and reconnected with the wisdom of my former years. (more below)

From the diaries (with format edit) ~ whataboutbob


I have watched sadly as the business studies techniques I had learned for manufacturing have been applied to areas for which they were never intended. `Quality control' or `value added' for school kids? `Measurable targets' for the spiritual growth of churches? The dreary reductionist logic that treats people as self-interested, atomised, amoral agents was applied seemingly without a thought about its validity or even to its consequences. Was it my imagination, or were people actually starting to behave more selfishly, in accordance with the economic models? There is nothing new in the suspicion that the Economists' assumption of self-interest may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

By 2004 I had the problem in focus. Is it really true that economics and altruism don't mix? How irrational is it to care about people around you? What would happen if, rather than ignoring the human propensity for generosity towards others, we attempted to model it? Might that, too, act like a self-fulfilling prophecy and encourage people to behave better? These were the questions that lead me to create altruistic economics.

A little introspection suggested that I have as many different propensities for altruism as I have relationships - so a system of modelling altruism had better have a concept of personal relationships. Even this initial insight takes us outside the realms of any of the traditional economic models of which I am aware. There is no central marketplace where all the economic agents meet, there's a network, like WWW, over which they do interact with one another. The network of care is the one of the basic elements of altruistic economics, the second is that of sympathy.

At that time I was looking after my grandmother, who had pretty severe Alzheimer's. If I had been so inclined I could have easily helped myself to a lot of money from her account without fear of discovery. Homo economicus, the selfish maximiser, would of course have been so inclined. With the power to move money between us at will, I was indifferent between transfers of wealth between us. I was uninterested in gaining £1 if the cost to my granny were £1 (or over). Conversely, I would be willing to spend up to £1 to save her an expense of £1 (since I could claim the money back any time). Call this a relationship of strength 1, I decreed. At the other extreme, what about someone for whom I had no altruistic feelings? If I would not be willing to give up anything for them to gain £1, the logical value to assign for strength of relationship (which I later termed `sympathy') was 0. The rest of altruistic economics follows from these assumptions.

That was of course an unusual situation, but life is full of similar scenarios. If a friend rings you from a cellphone and asks you to call him back because it's costing him a lot, would you do it? If your brother asks you to help out by babysitting for him? If your mum wants you to come over and tidy up the garden for her? Almost everything we do impacts other people, and - aside from autistics - we have a natural tendency to weigh up the outcome not only in terms of the impact on our own welfare, but in terms of our joint wellbeing. We consider the impact on others and on our relationship with them. Such a tendency is entirely healthy, natural and as it should be. What is not healthy, natural or as it should be is a system of economics which equates autism with rationality, that treats altruism as an irrelevance that can be safely ignored.

Display:
I wonder if you know or have heard about the people from Revue du MAUSS (Movement Agaisnt Utiliarism in Social Sciences). A bunch of social scientists railing against utilitarism and trying to found economic and social systems on such things as the gift paradigm.

a couple links :

Revue du MAUSS
Journal du MAUSS

Of course, it's in French....

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:16:46 AM EST
You might find this paper of interest (if you haven't already seen it):
http://pages.towson.edu/jpomy/behavioralecon/Kahneman1.pdf

Also economist Mark Thoma's blog has had frequent discussions of altruism. If you aren't already participating you might consider this as well.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/

Many of the discussions center around questioning the assumptions of classical economics as it pertains to human nature.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:24:41 AM EST
Welcome to ET. Interesting diary.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:36:38 AM EST
Of course you're right for the generality of the population. Which is why we're not rich. The uber-sharks who rule the world, the Bushs, the Cheneys and the Trumps are exactly those people who'd sell their granny's birthright given half the chance.

They make the rules, they pass the laws, they persuade lecturers that black should be white if they want their next paycheck.

As Run DMC pointed out : It's just like that, that's just the way it is.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 02:10:28 PM EST
It's the way it is, but it's not the way it needs to be.

And it is simple new economic tools operating outside the system, but connected to it, which will make the change IMHO.

A whole new take on Rules, Laws AND Paychecks...


When you are in power you have to stretch the truth, and then it won't ever go back to it's normal shape

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 02:26:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Such people get into power because too many cynical, apathetic people say things like: "It's just like that, that's just the way it is."

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 06:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that and the guns, private armies, media control and false flag terrorism.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 24th, 2007 at 07:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And how did that get control of all that ? Because cynical apathetic people... etc.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jul 24th, 2007 at 05:52:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good for you for objecting to the assumption the lecturer asked about - though clearly not interested in any other views. The answer to his reply is - what's the point of doing something clearly based on false assumptions and anyway who dcreed there is only one way to do economics?

Even in a very rational, non-idealistic approach, it's clear that there is a very good argument that altruism is essential to our survival and evolution favoured its development:

Sober argues that, even if we accept an evolutionary approach to human behaviour, there is no particular reason to think that evolution would have made humans into egoists rather than psychological altruists. On the contrary, it is quite possible that natural selection would have favoured humans who genuinely do care about helping others, i.e. who are capable of `real' or psychological altruism. Suppose there is an evolutionary advantage associated with taking good care of one's children -- a quite plausible idea. Then, parents who really do care about their childrens' welfare, i.e. who are `real' altruists, will have a higher inclusive fitness, hence spread more of their genes, than parents who only pretend to care, or who do not care. Therefore, evolution may well lead `real' or psychological altruism to evolve. Contrary to what is often thought, an evolutionary approach to human behaviour does not imply that humans are likely to be motivated by self-interest alone. One strategy by which `selfish genes' may increase their future representation is by causing humans to be non-selfish, in the psychological sense.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/

See also:

DECEMBER 26, 2005

VOICES OF INNOVATION

Nobel Winner Yunus: Microcredit Missionary
Economics professor Muhammad Yunus wasn't afraid to turn the rules of banking upside down

Editor's Note: Bangladesh's Muhammad Yunus and the bank he founded, Grameen Bank, which created a new category of banking by granting millions of small loans to poor people with no collateral--helping to establish the microcredit movement across the developing world--won the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday. On its Web site, the Norwegian Nobel Committee said it awarded the prize to Yunus, 65, and the bank "for their efforts to create economic and social benefit from below."  



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 06:44:52 PM EST

the missing link:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_52/b3965024.htm

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 06:51:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Contrary to what is often thought, an evolutionary approach to human behaviour does not imply that humans are likely to be motivated by self-interest alone. One strategy by which `selfish genes' may increase their future representation is by causing humans to be non-selfish, in the psychological sense."

This ought to read 'contrary to what is often thought by idiots ...', because it is quite clear in what we might call the 'primary' selfish gene literature (Dawkins and Wilson) that 'selfish' is defined in terms of inclusive fitness. It isn't to do with stiffing everyone else so you can afford a new plasma TV or get a promotion, or even so that you can 'get the most girls' (because that won't necessarily leave you with the most kids, or surviving children via siblings, etc.) The popularization of these ideas has lead to many grievous errors, which often turn up to laughable effect on Internet forums such as, oh, say, 'The Oil Drum', which is otherwise largely top-notch ... 'Hey, we're all doomed, because it's all about babes and you can only score if you've got an SUV, right? And it's like that everywhere, not just the US, it's just human nature, deal with it, dude.'

But now that this idiotic meme has been set loose, it seems it will never die ...

by wing26 on Tue Jul 24th, 2007 at 08:35:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"This ought to read 'contrary to what is often thought by idiots ...'"

This seems to be another example of the rather intolerant and self-congratulatory attitude one encounters too often here and elsewhere. They aren't necessarily "idiots" - not everyone has the time to read "what we might call the 'primary' selfish gene literature", nor the primary literature of a lot of other subjects they have some interest in. As you say "The popularization of these ideas has lead to many grievous errors"  - blame the popularizers. For a good example of doing the latter see:

Bad science

Ben Goldacre, Wednesday July 18, 2007, The Guardian

Whatever you think about Andrew Wakefield, the real villains of the MMR scandal are the media. Just one week before his GMC hearing, yet another factless "MMR causes autism" news story appeared: and even though it ran on the front page of our very own Observer, I am dismantling it on this page. We're all grown-ups around here

[Though he does acknowledge this]

 think we should recognise that criticising a paper within the same stable is a very unusual thing, and I think it shows phenomenal integrity that the Guardian was willing to give me the opportunity to write about this as I would about any other newspaper story that was so wrong, even if it took some time. I honestly don't think it could happen anywhere else, especially as I was criticising the central facts of a news story, not a comment or opinion piece.

http://www.badscience.net/?p=457




Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jul 24th, 2007 at 06:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I said 'what we might call the primary literature', which implies, accurately for most cases, that it isn't literally the primary literature. I meant the populist stuff like 'The Selfish Gene', and so on. As far as popular discussions of such things are concerned, those books are the primary literature ... and yes I am intolerant of right-wing d*ckheads who can't or won't read and then go on to cite such books as justifying 'why we are all doomed because hey it's all about poontang and therefore SUVs, you can't change human nature', etc.

The 'selfish gene' hypothesis was supposed to explain the (obvious) existence of (limited) altruism, not prove that 'there is no such thing as society'.

That is why am I annoyed about it. If you look at sites on the net (sorry, the Oildrum again), you will see this kind of perverted Social Darwinism crop up again and again. Laughably, one of its previously best-know exponents at that site once said that he 'had never heard of' E.O. Wilson!

Let me be clear: I am not slagging off ordinary people for not reading complicated treatises on ethology. I am slagging off people for taking popular works, which are widely read, and misconstruing them completely to support stupid ideas.

by wing26 on Sat Jul 28th, 2007 at 02:03:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When your professor said
"Well, we have to assume that, otherwise we can't do economics"
... "economics" is being defined as those question that can be addressed with a utilitarian maximizing model.

Suppose that, like any other social science or natural science, we were to define economics as a problem domain, rather than a field of application of one particular type of analysis. Say, "Economics is the study of the material provisioning of societies".

Well, then, there is absolutely no need to assume individualistic utilitarian maximising "in order to do economics", because "doing economics" would quite clearly include far more than just questions that can be addressed with a utilitarian maximising model.

Also, as a link to additional resources in addition to those given above, the Post-Autistic Economic Network.

Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jul 24th, 2007 at 07:41:58 PM EST
The guy was clearly uninterested in going into a lot of details. One could definitely do economics (and many people actually do it) assuming altruism. Even Barro and Becker - very neoclassical economists, and the people one would definitely define as conservative - would have utility of children in the parents' utility function.

On the other hand, I could sympathize with the guy - there's no way I could possibly talk about this stuff in Econ 101. For example, econometrics in this case becomes so much tougher - just check Durlauf pages... Maybe the honors class, though. Definitely we do have these kinds of things when we teach grad students.

by Sargon on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 12:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I definitely would not talk about having the perceived welfare of others in an individual's utility function, because then I would have to go into the insuperable difficulties that are caused for the utilitarian approach by interdependence among utility functions.

So, I agree that it is mostly at third year level that one could go into things like the collapse of Walrasian General Equilibrium, the inability of traditional marginalism to offer a theory of culture, and similar topics for critical analysis.

At the introductory level, it would be more appropriate to simply discuss scientific approaches to studying altruism in economics, and leave to one side the complexities of vain efforts to incorporate it into marginalism.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 11:34:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a good refresher course and the refreshing view, Robin.  I expected a lot more voices here, but you may have left some speechless.  ;)

It is easy to get caught up in the typical eco-no-think to decipher the news and it takes practice to question and name the wrong assumptions.  I´m just glad that there is so much ´thoughtfulness support´ on the net to debunk the almost worthless msm.

If you can think of a way that your site and bloggers can cooperate, I hope you will write it here also.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena

by metavision on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 04:18:15 PM EST
Thanks to Bob for front paging this. I asked Robin to post the Diary because I thought when I first heard him explain his thinking at LSE about 3 years ago I instinctively thought that he is onto something "big".

In creating his "sympathy" indicator he gives us ( as far a I know) a new econometric tool to utilise and to compare and contrast with existing analytical tools.

Now when analytical minds such as Migeru, and others on this site, hear the word "Sympathy" they reach for their revolvers and tend to dismiss what follows as some sort of idealistic theorising of little value in the "Real" world.

That is a big mistake, but flows from the Rhetoric and associations with the word "Sympathy" and its emotional connotations.

Rational people don't "do" emotiosn do they.

Now Robin was unwise enough - in a slip of the tongue -to call the variable "s" that he uses to assist in modelling transactions "indifference value".

I am sure he will castigate me for saying so, because he immediately attempted to withdraw the expression, but the cat was out of the bag!

Brutal though the phrase is in some ways, it is, I think useful as a rhetorical stick to beat conventional economists with since I believe (and this where the really good brains can get stuck in and maybe prove me right or wrong) that this "indifference value" gives us a new way as JA Wheeler put it, "to ask questions of Reality".

When you are in power you have to stretch the truth, and then it won't ever go back to it's normal shape

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 04:47:41 AM EST
Now when analytical minds such as Migeru, and others on this site, hear the word "Sympathy" they reach for their revolvers and tend to dismiss what follows as some sort of idealistic theorising of little value in the "Real" world.

Chris, you really, really haven't been paying attention: the "analytical minds" have been ranting for some time that precisely this sort of non-rational (in a very narrow sense) element is essential to making sensible economic models.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:01:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course I have seen that, I may be a Bear of Little Brain, but I am not entirely dumb. ;-)

But my point - and it has been brilliantly examined on ET in recent months - is that everything begins with the Rhetoric.

We have to take "their" Rhetoric and discourse and turn it against them.

That is what I am attempting to do when I talk about "asset-based" as distinguished from "deficit-based" finance. And more recently, by demonstrating new forms of "Public Equity" (using different legal forms to the Corporation) which people may then compare and contrast with the locust variety of "Private Equity".

Robin has IMHO something new, but if the descriptor is "tarnished" in some way by pre-conceptions and associations then he will get nowhere with it.

I would see the Economist etc giving short thrift to "Sympathy Value", but possibly a fair wind to "Indifference Value" particularly if it gives better results - (Does it? Examine Robin's work and tell me where he is wrong) - than the conventional bollocks.

And maybe in due course the world will be ready for "Sympathy" value, but right now, regrettably, I don't think it is...

When you are in power you have to stretch the truth, and then it won't ever go back to it's normal shape

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:21:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Your intended point is not what was communicated by what you wrote then.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:35:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, my name keeps cropping up in people's comments and diary intros where I least expect it. Maybe I've been overdoing the blogging thing.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:37:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Think of it as  commentary on the quality of your blogging thing.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:41:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru, IMHO you are one of the "engine rooms" of ET.

Keep driving right along...

And apologies for naming you! I guess you are the exception to the rule - it's just that you were the first "Analyst" that popped into my head, probably because of your high level of ET "presence".

The art is to be an "Analyst" without being "Anal" I guess...

When you are in power you have to stretch the truth, and then it won't ever go back to it's normal shape

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 07:28:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Chris says...as he goes out the door: it would not be the first time!  
by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:47:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think what Chris is actually referring to is to the cases when we confront utopians with "yeah, that's great, but how do we get there from here?". I think you may have even written a diary or story against utopianism based around that point.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:52:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now when analytical minds such as Migeru, and others on this site, hear the word "Sympathy" they reach for their revolvers and tend to dismiss what follows as some sort of idealistic theorising of little value in the "Real" world.

I demand a quotation now.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:24:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
since you asked:

I demand a quotation now.

how's that?

it's a tone thing, and maybe quite different from how you are in meatspace.

Convince me

from our last discussion. it comes off as arrogant and in-your-face demanding, to me anyway.

more discursive, less confrontational, would be nice.

detached perhaps...

you have a great sense of humour, do you realise how abrasive you can be when sometimes you don't use it?

having said that, it's great that you're here, your contributions are outstanding, both in quality and quantity.

your ability to dig for thruth is amazing, reminds me of a jack russel terrier going down a badger hole!

thanks for your generosity, i'll come down off my horse now, thanks also for that good advice, lol!

it's not your fault you're brilliant, but too edgy you can do something about, that is if you care...

"It guarantees silky vibrant skin and an eighteen percent reduction in panic attacks!" Jonathan Franzen.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 12:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
since you asked:

I demand a quotation now.

how's that?

it's a tone thing, and maybe quite different from how you are in meatspace.

Yes, it's a deliberate annoyed and offended tone. Congrats for noticing. I don't think I need to be discursive about it, by the way.

As for the "convince me", you might want to reply in the right thread. It was actually not a one-liner, it was after "first you convince yourself, then you convince a friend, then you convince an enemy", which I believe is taken from Georg Polya. I remain unconvinced, by the way.

There are times when I actually want to be in-your-face, abrasive or edgy.

I'm actually worse in meatspace: there I don't do it on purpose.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 12:33:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'spress yourself!!

hope it at least makes you feel better. peace out

"It guarantees silky vibrant skin and an eighteen percent reduction in panic attacks!" Jonathan Franzen.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 12:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... assertion:
Now when analytical minds such as Migeru, and others on this site, hear the word "Sympathy" they reach for their revolvers and tend to dismiss what follows as some sort of idealistic theorising of little value in the "Real" world.

He has every right to demand that you present evidence to back up your assertion, especially given that you have not merely made it as a claim against him, but have made him the poster child for a nebulous group of "analytical minds".


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 11:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a bit short of time here, so sorry if this has already been mentioned above: But generally speaking, isn't it pretty simple to model altruism as part of "self-interest"?

If I'm being altruistic to my brother or friends, not only do I implicitly expect similar treatment in return (i.e. there's a present value of future expected benefits involved), but this rather banal aspect aside, I also derive pleasure directly from doing it. For instance, I enjoy running errants for my girlfriend. Although it is partly offset by the annoyance of some of the tasks, generally it increases my utility because it's a way for me to signal to her how much I care and it elevates our relationship in my eyes.

In this way, altruistic impulses can easily be incorporated into a utility-based model with indifference curves. Simply stated: you just derive utility from altruism and "moral" behaviour. There's no reason why this is necessariloy an oxymoron.

by Almanax on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 06:36:38 AM EST
Thanks for that Almanax.

It's certainly not a question of either Utility or Altruism, is it?

So modelling with different criteria and curves makes sense in principle, but the Devil's in the Detail (and the Definition)

When you are in power you have to stretch the truth, and then it won't ever go back to it's normal shape

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 07:32:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If one defines utility as what any action increases, the definition becomes tautological. And pretty uninteresting. Anything can then be described as utility.

A lot of things (not only altruism) cannot be turned into numbers to feed into economics calculation, and thus aren't part of economic utility, despite attempts to turn this concept into an universal human behavior.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 09:10:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If one defines utility as what any action increases, the definition becomes tautological. And pretty uninteresting. Anything can then be described as utility.

Funny you'd say that, because that's precisely what Economists do... when you cannot determine preferences to predict economic behaviour, use economic behaviour to infer preferences. But then you can no longer predict economic behaviour, although you can pretend that you can...

Revealed preference theory came about because the theories of consumer demand were based on a diminishing marginal rate of substitution. This diminishing MRS is based on the assumption that consumers make consumption decisions based on their intent to maximize their utility. While utility maximization was not a controversial assumption, the underlying utility functions could not be measured with great certainty. Revealed preference theory was a means to reconcile demand theory by creating a means to define utility functions by observing behavior.


Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 09:24:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... And adding another epicycle to the planetary orbits. Oh well.

But no, economists won't look at the other social sciences and see what they have to say about human behaviour. They ask the other social sciences to talk in Economics terms, but refuse to reciprocate.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 12:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most basic economic models do not use cardinal but only ordinal utility; in other words, you don't measure "utility-units" and compare them, you only compare whether utility of a certain action is higher or lower relative to another; and whether it is higher or lower is usually judged by revealed preference i.e. if I prefer running the errant for my girlfriend rather than letting herself do it, I show that I derive higher utility from the former choice. For the basic utility analysis framework, it is thus not necessary to try to turn altruism into exactly measured and comparable numbers.

In any case, I don't deny that it's a complicated subject and I'm no expert.

So at least for the basic utility models as taught in modern microeconomics, you can easily operationalise altruism as part of utility analysis.

by Almanax on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 08:15:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ups, i forgot to delete/move that last sentence
by Almanax on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 08:16:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
another correction: for the girlfriend example, it would be more precise to say that "If I actually run the errand (or say that I would in a survey), rather than letting her do it.." i.e. if I reveal my actual choice, I thereby show that I prefer one action relative to another. Hence we can rank the two in a simple indifference curve graph.
by Almanax on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 08:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Essentially, "maximising utility" is being defined as what people do...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 08:27:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So at least for the basic utility models as taught in modern microeconomics, you can easily operationalise altruism as part of utility analysis.

True, but in "reality" they say something like "we could do this, but it's hard, so let's concentrate on money", don't they?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 09:02:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'm not quite sure about assumptions used in applied micro studies, I guess that depends very much on the particular study and application. It's certainly true that as soon as you actually try to apply the theory, problems of measurement and comparability hit you hard and bad and often lead to an extreme emphasis on monetary values.

However, the point I'm trying to make above relates to basic micro theory as presented in any run-of-the mill undergrad or basic post-grad course. In that "EC101" context, you can easily operationalise "altruism" in a classic utility-analysis framework where people behave as self-maximisers. The only thing you have to do is to say that some people derive utility from "altruism" or "moral behaviour" and hence prefer altruistic and moral choices, even if it hurts them in terms of e.g. money.

For instance, a typical simple post-grad micro exercise is the following:


"The preferences of a consumer are represented by the utility function u= x+y. The price of a unit of good x is 2, the price of a unit of good y is p, and the income of the consumer is M. Moreover, the consumer is given a lump-sum subsidy of that can only be used to purchase good y.

(a) Define the utility maximisation problem of the consumer.
(b) Suppose that p does not equal 2. Find the optimal amounts of x and y as functions of p, the subsidy and M."


Now this is all very abstract, but notice that in spite of the rhetoric ("purchase" etc.), the variables are not specified. You could say y is "hundreds of dollars" or you could specify it as "visits to the agent's sick grandmother". It's just stuff the agent derives utility from, and in theory you could find a representation of his utility function and indifference curves by observing how he actually choses between money and visits. Similarly, the units of prices and subsidy are not specified.

So...I concede that applications are difficult, but the underlying theory itself is not invalidated by the "altruism" criticism.

by Almanax on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 01:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, yes, it's rather easy. The only problem that throws a lot of the existing theory out of the window is including prices into the utility function. Including quantities - not only yours, but also those of the others - is fine. Complicated but fine.
by Sargon on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 12:27:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome to Eurotrib and thanks for an interesting diary!

A thought: isn't one of the common arguments against the welfare state precisely that it reduces people's compulsion to be charitable and makes them act in a more selfish manner, knowing that the state will assist its weakest members?

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde

by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 10:18:18 AM EST
Is there any reason I should do anything other than consider that argument as insanely stupid?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 09:03:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's my personal opinion of most arguments against the welfare state, though I try not to phrase it quite like that in public. It's out of the "We have to fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here" school of argumentation. Which is a bit too effective for me to have complete faith in humanity.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 10:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do we have to pretend to take these arguments seriously?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 10:24:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It provides hours worth of entertainment?

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 10:31:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In much the same way as whacking yourself on the head with a telephone directory.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 10:32:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We all have our guilty pleasures...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 10:34:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Homunculus Economicus a classic by John Adams...  
Lurking in every one of us is an homunculus economicus. He is a beady-eyed little fellow whose job is looking after number one. He is a consumer. If anything is going, he is there to see how much of it he can get for himself. He is extremely well informed. He knows the price of everything and exactly how much of everything he wants at the prevailing prices. He has a sharp mathematical brain and can reorder his wants in a flash if the price of anything changes. He has a voracious appetite that no amount of consuming can diminish.

Altruism is incomprehensible to him. He weighs every action in the scales of self-interest and pursues only those that register personal gain. When on occasion his behaviour appears unselfish or co-operative, it will be found on closer inspection to be prompted by far-sighted, "enlightened" self-interest. But such behaviour is relatively rare. The beady eyes are characteristically myopic, preoccupied with the spotting of bargains close at hand. He is a nasty, egoistical little fellow, and most of us are thoroughly ashamed of him.

He has three common English names: utility maximizer, profit maximizer, and economic man; and for one so pre-eminently qualified to look after himself he has acquired a surprising number of volunteer advisers. Economists are altruists with a professional interest in selfishness. They offer their services, generally for a quite modest fee, as detached scientific advisers on optimizing strategies for other people's value judgments. As Nicholas Kaldor pointed out over forty years ago, the efficacy of their advice is crucially dependent on homunculus economicus behaving true to form [...]

Adams wrote this and other sparkling essays in the mid 1970's, just before the Great Neolib Freeze in the Anglo nations.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 07:53:43 PM EST


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